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hi there guys,

i wondered if any of you wise mages knew how LMI makes there kerfed liners? they are really nice strips and i love them but it grudges me every time i order them as i have to pay import duty etc to the UK, it almsot makes them stupidly expensive.... just wondered.

I think they use (insert wood of choice here, mahogany, spruce, bass wood....) they just cut it to profile and then saw the 'kerfs' every quarter inch or so, being careful not to cut completely through ... I would do mine also if I had a good radial saw (... hmmm, another tool I need...)

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

You can get a couple of the thin kerf freud blades and some spacers and use the table saw. Set up a sliding fence and there you go. I think someone posted some pics here once a while ago, can't seem to find it though.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

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Except for those that may have to IMPORT them I cant image them being cheaper to make than to buy. The task is easy enough but the time is where the cost is.

Agreed Michael

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I made my first ones by profiling the spruce and mahogany on a sled in my thinckness sander and then I just ganged two at a time and cut them with a hand saw in small mitre box using my LMI fret saw. I just make the box so that the kerf that I run the saw down catches the strongback on the saw and will not allow it to cut right through the kerfing. I think it took about a half hour to saw the kerfs every 1/4 inch with .025 kerf. For a guitar here and there it was no big dea and somewhat relaxing. I am going to build a jig to gang cut them on a powered saw of some kind in the next while though.

Shane

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Canada

I heard you can get a goood variety of purflings from this company in the
UK:
Small Wonder Music
And there is this one in Germany, mentionned by somebody on the OLF last
week:
Rost Wood
Should be much cheaper on the shipping…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I've made mine by hand to date, because time is something I've got plenty of (this ain't no job for me), and I like making all parts of the instrument. Just sliced them up, used a router setup to thickness, and cut them in the stewmac fret slotting box, with the original stewmac fretting saw (hey, and least it gets used for something).

I cut the strips close with the bandsaw, size them with the drill press planer, smooth up with a hand plane, and then kerf them on the bandsaw. I just use my crosscut guide, and clamp a stop in the slot so that the strip is not cut all the way through. It takes about 30 minutes to make a set this way (I've gotten fairly quick). It would be cheaper to buy it, maybe, but I like to use willow wood, and for a long time I couldn't buy 'reverse' kerfed liners, so...

hi guys

thanks for the tips so far,

maybe i should have been more clear, i know how to make kerfed linings, but i wanted to know how to make fairly large numbers, and getting the lovely finish LMI do on theirs, that way i can re-sell to my luthier compatriots here in blighty.... i just wondered whether they had a router/shaper jig, or a drum sanding table jig to clean them up after doing the angle on the bandsaw?? it just intrigues me as they seem to set the benchmark in terms of purchased linings...

Why not just use solid liners that have been bent? Maybe laminate two thin strips for one liner? I'm sure there is a reason/answer for not doing so but it is not apparent to me.

solid strips are ok, but you will always have to do some touch up on the bending iron to get a perfect fit, also they need to be for specific shaped guitars, whereas the kefed liners are generic

I guess it is how you figure the time and value. I am in a very small market. In order to keep the price of my guitars at a cost that my LOCAL market will suport me building 3-5 a year I have to value my time well. It would take me with set up and the actual work time an hour to do 4 30" linings. That is thickness the stock, Shape the stock and kerf the stock. Even if I used a low labor rate of $5.00 an hour. That is near double the cost of manufactured linings.

The task is simple. and if you build enough to justify large runs, then it would make since. But for me building 3-5 commissions a year that time (ie. money) is lost product.

I like to figure my labor rate at $12.00/hr ( I think a low rate) that would be $48 dollars for a set of linings, times lets say 4 guitars that is $192.The cost of 4 bought sets with shipping is roughly $40. Thats $152 dollars or a nice back and side set. And noe of this considers material cost.MichaelP38735.750162037

Frank Ford has a cool little video on his site of him making kerfed lining with somsort of automated contraption. Try contacting him about how he did it.

Here's a link to the page. Frank Ford's automated kerfer

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

You should check out Bob Gleason’s Pegasus Guitars & Ukuleles site. He shows how to make a large number of kerfed linings at one time and has another section on shaping them. I hope this helps. Click on the Web Site directory at the bottom of the page.

Pegasus Guitars and Ukuleles

Philip

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aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

The way Alan describes is simple and fast. If you do not have a bandsaw Dremel sells a mini saw tool that works like a tablesaw and can be very useful with a simple home made sliding board.

Gg

Hoffman's website shows how he does them with spaced multiblades in an arm saw. He goes on to acknowledge that he now buys them

This should give you some ideas:
















After the lining strips are kerfed I run them through the thickness sander again to knock the fuzz off of them.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

[QUOTE=PaddyD] hi guys

thanks for the tips so far,

maybe i should have been more clear, i know how to make kerfed linings, but i wanted to know how to make fairly large numbers, and getting the lovely finish LMI do on theirs, that way i can re-sell to my luthier compatriots here in blighty.... i just wondered whether they had a router/shaper jig, or a drum sanding table jig to clean them up after doing the angle on the bandsaw?? it just intrigues me as they seem to set the benchmark in terms of purchased linings...[/QUOTE]

Get practicing, I just got a new batch in from LMI this morning a source of good kerfed linings in the UK would be great. Nice triangles, reverse mahogany and especially spanish cedar. What are you waiting for!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I make mine much the same way Tim shows. Using a tablesaw, it is only practical to make the "reverse" style linings.
I start out with a quarter sawn board. 5/8" or so thick & pass a round over bit along both edges to make the curved shoulder. Then I rip the two strips off the board & keep doing that 'till the board is used up. Then pass the strips through the sander to get them all the same thickness.
I use three blades ganged together with aluminum spacers between. (I think they are .290" thick. If anyone wants an accurate measurement I'll get one when I'm in the shop later on)
I made the sled wide enough to cut 12 linings at a time. Tim's pics show taping the stips together (a must) and he shows a "hold down" block... Again a must to push down over the blades while making the cut. This keeps the cut depth consistent.
I start with a quartersawn plank... This makes the linings flat sawn & they seem to break less during storage & installation, though it probably doesn't matter a bunch.
If you place the strips on the sled with the roundover section forward, almost all the blade chipout happens on the flat (back) surface, which will be sanded off after gluing the linings to the sides. A light hand sanding is all that's usually needed.

You could make tradition kerfed lining (Triangular) by following Dan and Tim's method and then just place the kerfed strips in a plywood carriage with slanted slots cut in it to take the corner off with one pass through the thickness sander. I am going to try this! I process all of my stock into trinaglur cross section like this already anyway and then kerf by hand, if I just kerfed before I made the stuff into triangles I wouldn't have to do it by hand....another 'light bulb' moment! Thanks y'all!

Shane

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Canada

I've always felt that making linings the way I do is the perfect job for two pneumatic cylinders: one to advance the stock and one to push it into the saw. You'd need some sort of 'magazine' to hold the strips waiting to be kerfed, and a way to autmatically load them onto the moving carriage that rides on the saw. Not a big deal, I would think.

The big advantage of the method I use over table saw methods is that you set the saw for the thickness of the 'web' that holds the kerf together. That will always be the same once you've set it up, no matter what the thickness of the strip. With a table saw, you set the depth of ct, and the web ends up with all the variation in thickness. Since the flex of the kerfed liner depends on the web thickness you can end up with unacceptable differences using the table saw.

My method also works equally well for 'regular' or 'reversed' kerf liners.

Alan,

The table saw method should work just fine if you have prepared your strips properly. It takes time but saw and then thickness sand them to pretty close tolerances. The band saw method looks good but I am thinking of thin kerf (maybe) and I always worry about a bit of wobble in the bandsaw blade. Also, on the table saw you can run like 12 at a time!

There's the rule, the rule is there aren't any! It is great to discuss these various ptions

Thanks

Shane

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Canada

I agree with Alan, that an overhead saw would make the job easier, & give you more options in the shape of your linings. If I had one I would surely use it, but the tablesaw can do a very nice job with a bit of care. The trick is consistent stock thickness & an even down pressure on the stock as you pass it through the blade.
The other good thing about the tablesaw (the first being that most of us already have one) is that you can use pretty much any diameter of blade, up to the maximum. (Or can you raise & lower the head on a radial arm saw??? Don't know, only used one a couple of times & it made me nervous.)

I pay $3.85 for a 32 inch strip. Why bother at that price. But if you like to make them have a great time. There are times when buying is cheaper
john hall